Episode 22: Creating Content with Purpose with Emma McMillan
We're all about connecting authentically with your audience and with purpose over here, and our special guest today, copy coach, Emma McMillan is too.
You'll learn:
How to authentically connect with your audience
Using a podcast as a master form of content
Creating with more ease and purpose
Speaking with an audience focused lense
About Emma
Emma believes everyone can write better. As a copy coach, she guides small business owners and others to connect authentically – and consistently – with their audience. A former teacher of 12 years, Emma has run a successful copywriting business since 2016. Her unique skill set gives her a deep understanding of both how people learn and the realities of small biz life.
As host of the podcast Not Just About Copy, Emma shares inspiring conversations along with practical coaching episodes on how to write better - with more ease, purpose, joy and flow.
Connect with Emma on Instagram, LinkedIn or on her website
Listen to my episode with Emma on the Not Just About Copy podcast
We'd love you to help us achieve our goal of 100 ratings and reviews.
Share this episode with a friend who you know would love it also!
-
Good Chat Media acknowledges the traditional owners of the land where we work, live and record the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin nation and we pay our respects to elder's past and present always was always will be Aboriginal land.
Hey, I'm Cass, the founder podcast production agency, Good Chat Media and welcome to Good chats. Good chat is a podcast with a holistic approach to business and marketing. And with the help of some super special people, I'll be spilling all the secrets about boosting your brand building credibility and connecting with community through podcasting. Let's get into the episode.
Hi friends, welcome back to another episode of the Good Chats podcast. It's your girl, Cass, founder of Good Chat Media and just legend. That's all. How are you? Really? How are you? I hope you're doing well today. I've got a really good episode for you. I met with the gorgeous Emma McMillan, who is a copy coach, educator and podcast host, helping small business owners to connect authentically and consistently with their audience.
And it was such a great chat. We actually spoke a lot about connection and community, which is something that is super important in my world, as you know. We spoke about how doing things your way is the right way, doing things that fill you with energy, fill you with happiness is the right thing to do.
You don't have to do what everyone else is doing, you don't have to do what everyone else says you need to do. And if someone's going to tell me that I don't need to do something because someone else is going to do them, I'm so here for it. I feel like there's so much pressure as a business owner to do things the right way, or do things the way that other people are doing them, and the pressure that we put on ourselves to really See what other people are doing and go, Oh my gosh, I should be doing that.
Or, you know, getting on a platform where you're going, I really should have got onto that. But you don't have to. It's not necessary all the time to do things. I mean, there's some times where you're like, You know what, I probably should do this because I know it's going to move me forward. And I actually don't hate doing it.
Those things, keep doing those things. But anything that you attach the word should to, put that in the bin. So as I said, Emma is a copy coach and educator, but she's also a podcast host on the Not Just About Copy podcast. And she talks to people about how to write better and how to do it with more ease and purpose and joy and flow.
That's something that is a big challenge for me, being, writing my own copy is something that I struggle with quite a lot. I feel like my favourite medium of connecting with people has been podcasting because I love a conversation where I feel like my own hangups about writing have been that I can't articulate what I'm thinking into the words that will sell or that will connect to my audience.
There's that piece missing in the middle of connection and I don't know if I want to find it. I've never really enjoyed writing. It's something that I love getting help with. I have Jordan from Scrunch Social who helps me with my copy. With some of my social copy and my website copy. And I've been able to have that reliability with her to trust her, that she knows what I'm trying to say.
And that's the brilliant thing about finding a copywriter, right? So, it made for a really interesting episode because she understood where I was coming from and this is something that she helps people with, which is one of the most incredible things. And it's people like me who don't know how to write well or, you know, has a block about writing that she gets rid of these blocks.
So, and I think the ability that Emma has to understand. Small business, but also understand how people learn is something that is so special because you can go to someone who knows how to do something that maybe doesn't know how to connect with you and help you implement those things where she can, because she was a teacher, which I find fascinating.
So it was a fantastic episode and I hope you enjoy it. Let's get into the episode. Here's Emma. Hi, Emma. Thanks for coming on to the podcast. Hi, Cass. It's so good to be here with you. So glad to have you here. Can you please tell everyone what you do, what you're about? What's going on? Yeah, sure. So I am a copy coach, and I've kind of kind of coined that term a couple of years ago, because essentially I made the switch out of being a full time copywriter into more of someone who guides people to write their own copy.
Right? So I actually used to be a secondary school teacher for a long time. So I kind of Yeah. Wanted to find a way to bring back some of my favorite elements of kind of teaching, coaching, training, mentoring, like that kind of feel into the work that I was doing. So I now work predominantly with small business owners to help them feel more confident about their copy that they're putting out into the world, helping them understand their brand better and just be able to stand behind what it is that they say.
So yeah, that's kind of a bit about who I am and what I do. That's what I fill my days with. Yeah, that's so cool. And it's such a cool transition of being a teacher to then being a copywriter and then going, Hey, there's some link there that I'm missing. Let's go with that. How's it been going? It's been great.
You know, I mean, it was definitely, I'm kind of a, an all in person. So once I'd made the, my mind up to transition, I was like, right, that's it. No more copywriting clients. I'm getting down this path. But, you know, starting doing something in a space where it's not really a thing yet was something that I had to contend with, because for me, it was like, I guess I'd followed my curiosity in terms of like, yeah, what do I really like about what I'm doing and what's not working and what can I bring in and then it's been, you know, two or three years now of, I guess, educating people around, like, what does that actually look like?
What does a copycat actually help you with? And how is it different to working with a done for you copywriter? So. It's been a bit of a gradual process. I mean, that's one of the reasons I created a podcast, was to help me to be able to kind of explain that and show people how I actually work and the kinds of things that I talk about with my clients and I think copywriting had always felt like a very kind of closed kind of situation.
And I think it's really important for people to understand that, you know, if they run a business, I believe they can learn to write better for it. Yeah. And we'll get to talking about podcasts in a second, cause I absolutely love podcasting and the connection that we're able to make with people to just talk and people understand what we do so much more, but with writing better as a business owner, how do you help people to write better?
Is that a course? Is it, you know, like. When we do coaching, what does that look like? Yeah, good question. So I have a couple of ways that I love to work with people. Like I work one on one in a kind of a coaching capacity over 3 or 6 months with someone if they kind of have got a whole series of things that they're wanting to work on in terms of comms for their business, but also I run a group program.
Where people come into a container with me for 8 weeks and really start to develop some of those habits and so on. But essentially all of the work that I do, whether it's a, you know, delivering workshops, one on one coaching or group program, I kind of center it around this framework that I developed of these 5 kind of pillars, because What I realized was that it's not just about the copywriting part.
Right. And hence the name of my podcast, not just about copy, because I kept saying to people, it's not just about the copy, right. It's important to learn, you know, what is good copy and how it works. But also what I would notice every time a new client would come to me was. That often say, you know, I actually quite like writing and I've got heaps and heaps of stuff that's sitting in my Google drive and I just haven't shared it.
So there'd be this huge piece around confidence. Right. And then a lot of times we, you know, find that there needs to be some work on the self expression. So developing tone of voice and really kind of standing in your own brand. And then there's the connection piece. So understanding like, who's your audience, who are you talking to getting comfortable with things like calls to action.
And then finally, It's all around action. So once you know all these things, like what are the habits that you actually have in place? What are the systems like look like on your desktop? You know, where does content and copywriting fit into your week, into your month and so on? So it was kind of all of these things.
Yeah. That's amazing. And I've heard you speak on Nicole's podcast, Take Control Nicole, about language that is audience focused. And I absolutely loved that conversation that you both had. Can you What it actually means to like, when you understand your audience and being able to speak to them rather than it being just what I want to say.
Yeah. So I think there's a couple of things to talk about with that. And the first part is actually that the best way to fully understand your audience is to talk to them and to actually get some insights from them on, you know, What it is about them, like, what are their actual challenges? What are they looking for?
What problem do they have that needs solving? And so on, so that you can actually understand, like, not what you think their problems are, but what they are actually telling you they are. And so getting that really valuable customer, like voice of customer data is the first place to start. And then what a lot of small business owners find that they do naturally.
It's kind of like, they don't think about it necessarily, but they sort of write their copy from the perspective of like, you know, I'll do this, I'll show you this, I'll share this rather than putting themselves in the shoes of their client or the shoes of their customer and saying, what does that person need to hear?
So, for instance, instead of me saying to you, Cass, I'm going to show you how to do this, this, this, and this, it will be, you're going to learn how to. Okay, you'll understand, you know, this isn't this. So we're wanting to really focus on flipping that language from like the business focus to that audience focus so that the audience actually feels welcomed in and invited into that conversation.
Because all copy is really conversation. Okay, even if it's just on the screen, you're inviting someone in to that conversation with you. Yeah, I think it's very similar to what I do in terms of helping people through like selling through storytelling and I actually was at a few weeks ago and I met this woman and she was saying, okay, I want to start a podcast, but I have no idea where to start all of these kind of things.
And then we were talking in a circle and I was saying about. Selling through storytelling and talking about your services organically, rather than it being like, this is what I do. This is how I help people. And she was kind of like, Oh, okay. And then anyway, we stepped aside and there was another conversation that happened and I was with one of my girlfriends and she came over and she was just started talking about something that she was really passionate about.
And it was, she was saying about experience and experience that she had with one of her clients that. She was deciding who she was becoming today. So she had these papers on the ground and she wrote A, B and C of what person she's going to be today. And so she stepped onto B and then that's how she showed up for the day.
And that was because of. Something that she had taught them and I was like, yeah, I was like, take that exactly what you're saying is what I'm talking about, that you're just organically telling us how you help people without it being a sell to someone. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. It's a conversation. It's a sharing in whatever way feels good.
Like I think some of the issues that we have as small business owners is we've got so many other voices around us, right? We're on social media. There are, you know, we're hit with so many different ways that people are doing things. And it's so easy for us to get caught up and like, Oh my gosh, I should be doing this.
I should be saying it like this. Somebody who's doing this and why am I not doing this? Whatever. The hardest thing, but the simplest advice is to, like, do what feels good for you. Yeah, which is why I don't write. I feel like I struggle to, and this is probably something that you help people with all the time, and I'm happy for you to let me know, but I feel like I know what I want to say.
But then actually translating what I want to say and what comes out is two different languages. And so I've gotten to a really good point with someone who helps me with my copy and that I can tell her what I'm saying and she's able to translate that into. What I need to say, is that something that you help people to get out of their brains and just actually figuring out that?
Yes. Oh my goodness. That is such a common thing. I have a lot of clients. My clients usually fall into one of two categories. Either one, they come to me and they're like, I love writing. I just want some like support and guidance around it. I think others will come and they'll be like. I'm thinking these great thoughts and what comes out is not what I'm thinking.
My husband is a great example of these, like his emails. Sometimes they're just a total disconnect from the way that he naturally thinks. So I have a couple of strategies that I share with my clients that I'll tell you about today. And the first one is that. You know, the humble voice notes app is a really good place to start in terms of you getting your ideas down in a way that doesn't feel like you're not having to put pressure on yourself to, to formulate these into like written words, right?
Cause that can, you know, layer things with a whole lot of pressure. Okay. So that's a good place to start in terms of recording and whether or not you've got someone working with you to develop those ideas, I think it's really important for you as. The face and the voice of your business to be the person who actually does that step.
But the second thing is, and this is like been a game changer for some people is to actually, I mean, and you're doing it like literally as we speak, recording yourself in conversation, be it for a podcast or be it literally just so that you can explain your ideas to someone. So getting like a business bud to sit across from you.
Hitting, you know, record if you're on zoom hitting record on a voice note, if you're in person and getting this person to ask you questions about what you wanted to talk about. So it's forcing you to explain it. Yeah, that can just be so helpful as a way of just teasing out some of those ideas and also that.
I mean, I'm a real responder as well. And if that's the way that you like to create by responding, that question answer format can be so helpful rather than just you sitting there going like, well, where am I starting a hundred percent? I think most of the time when I'll have these amazing podcast interviews and I've absolutely loved doing the podcast and being on other people's podcasts as well is because these conversations I get off and I'm like, Oh my God, I've got so many ideas now because.
It's just the conversation part sparks so many beautiful ideas and think like, Oh my gosh, yeah, this is going to be so valuable for someone else. And I think that's where it's like that nice piece in my mind of where I've been able to connect with people in my world has been like, Oh, this is going to be like a value to them.
Like this is going to be super helpful. I think being able to explain it like this, because I have had that issue where I've been. Stuck in trying to get out what I want to say. And I would always label myself as not being articulate because I wasn't able to get my thoughts out where it was just, I needed to do it in a different format.
I think. Absolutely. And that's not to say to you that like even copywriters have days where they can't get the words out. I mean, it's pretty normal, but yeah, it's about finding your way. Right. Which is exactly what I, you know, I love
to say This is how you have to go about the process. And then you have to do this. It's like, no, no, hang on. Let's step back. What do you love? What do you hate? Like, why would I try and force you into a box rather than finding out how you would like to work? I think it's real authenticity when it comes to connecting with people, that is such a special thing and we're so, I think it's something that we're so lucky as business owners to be able to connect with people one on one rather than it being at a higher scale.
When businesses are bigger, you feel like maybe they get me on a certain level, but they don't get me. And I think it's such a special thing that we're able to connect with people. One on one and I guess a one to many as well, but in that same category, I agree. There's such an intimacy to that, I think.
And, you know, being in like a bigger business, you just don't have that opportunity, but yeah, it is something that I love about the small business world for sure. Yeah, sure. And I know we're going to get back to podcasts. So I. I love podcasts as a master form of content. I always encourage my clients to do this and to plan their content out through podcasting if they're doing a podcast, otherwise, you know, other forms of YouTube or blogs or whatever it may be.
Do you? Encourage people to have like one kind of master form and then have things trickle down from there so that it's easy to repurpose. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think like I bang on about content repurposing all the time because I feel like if you're going to invest the time and energy into creating that, I call it cornerstone content.
You can call it hero content, master content, whatever term works for you. Like, if you're going to invest time and energy into that, you have to make the most of it. Yeah, for me, like I use the podcast and if I was doing a blog, which that's not my preferred form of, you know, master content at all. I found I couldn't get the consistency with it as I have been able to with podcasts.
So again, it's about following your energy and your preferences. Right. But for me, I then use those same five. Pillars that I spoke about my framework, because they're essentially for my content pillars. And so when I go to plan out, like, the next 3 to 6 months, I'll be like, okay, so in terms of these different pillars, what do I want to talk about under each of them?
Some differences of topics, and I'll just brainstorm the things that I kind of want to cover and then I'll go with the ones that excite me. You know that really, but I think, oh, yeah, I've got some stuff I really want to say about that. And if I come up with an idea and it's not sparking joy for me, then I'll just think I'm just going to park that for now, because I think the worst thing we can do is to create content on topics that we think we should be that we genuinely are not interested in doing because I don't know about you, but I can.
Always tell like, and I think my audience can too, if I ever put out content that I'm not a hundred percent into, like, we need to like, bring the energy with it. Right? Yeah. And the feeling, you know, plays a big part of that as well. So, yeah, I use. My framework has my content pillars, and then that helps me to come up with topics to cover on those.
And I think it doesn't matter what kind of regularity you do this with, like if you've got a blog and you put out one blog a month, but you have actually got it, that it aligns to one of your content pillars. And then be repurposed into. My newsletter into a series of social posts, it might even become a new lead magnet.
I might develop, you know, a checklist that, you know, springboards off of this, or I might go and talk about this topic on someone's podcast or whatever it is. Like there's just so many ways you can repurpose to get more bang for your buck. And again, it's that repetition of message that is so important as well.
It's just, you want to be talking about the same sorts of things for that beautiful brand building. Yeah, it really does help. Build that brand awareness for yourself. Like I was talking to Jackie Maloney, who is a speaking coach, and she was saying she has, you know, her key speech, or she encourages everyone to do a key speech where they can talk for, I think she said 90 minutes or an hour, whatever it was that the detail didn't stick in my mind, but a solid amount of time.
And in that, she said everyone should have this one speech that they do so that at any given point, if they're called up to do it, if they're called up to do a podcast, if they're called up to do anything, they're able to have those same messages every single time consistently. And I, like talking to her about that, I was thinking the same thing of, I don't have that, but I've got, you know, those pillars in my mind of what I help people with, I've got the same thing as what you're saying, I've got what it looks like in the storytelling sense, I've got, you know, stories that attach to everything because I love that repetition and it's, it works.
Absolutely. And that's what helps you to build those connections. Like you think about it, like there's, there's nothing better than jumping on a call with someone who's reached out, you know, and they jump on and they say, like, Oh, when you spoke about X, it really resonated with me or, you know, I kept seeing your stuff about this and it made me think of, you know, how that might be able to help me or like, it's just, it's what actually helps you to build that connection and it's.
Sometimes we get in our own heads and we think, Oh my gosh, I'm saying the same thing all the time. I mean, for starters, nobody's seeing it all the time. Thanks algorithms. But also if they are, that's a good thing, right? Because that's how you kind of plan your stake in the ground. Like nobody can say they have, you know, they do the same thing as me.
They also have the same values as me. They also have the same story as to why they started their business. Like you, nobody can take that from you. So that is kind of what you own and what you need to make the most of. Yeah. And also I think it's something that you're right. No one is seeing all of the things you're posting.
People ask me like how many times should I be posting about my podcast? And there's things out there that's like you should post 10 times and I'm like you post whatever feels right for you, but post it on different platforms, use different parts of it to talk about it, talk about it the next week, talk about the week before to build hype.
Yeah. Like. No one is seeing every single one of these posts, or no one is really paying attention to every single one. And, if they are... They're not thinking negatively about it. It's the same thing as like feeling insecure about posting a photo of, you know, on your personal page and thinking, Oh, what are they going to think?
And it's like, who cares what they think? If they don't want to follow you, they don't have to follow you. If they don't want to buy from you, they're not going to buy from you. You're not convincing someone to buy from you. You're just showing them the values and the stories that you have to tell. And if that person resonates with you and connects with you, then that's where the connection is going to be.
Exactly. And I think something important to bring up there, Cassie, is that, like, the more frequently you can actually just get into the habit of writing this kind of stuff and producing this kind of content, whether you share it or not, the habit of creating regularly. Stops you from attaching so much importance to it, like, because you think about it.
If you don't send a newsletter out to community for 3 months, and you sit down to write 1, you're thinking like, oh, my God, what am I going to say? Like, it feels so like everything kind of feels much more magnified. Whereas if you are just contacting those people regularly. It just doesn't mean as much the stakes aren't as high.
So I would just so strongly encourage people just to create, you know, a small amount, but regularly so that it just doesn't feel like such a big deal. Yeah. A hundred percent. I love that. You've got to keep consistent as well. Like it's so much easier. Like I actually think I've been consistent with socials and stuff like that for a long time and it is easier for me to keep consistent.
Then it is for me to stop and start, I couldn't agree more when I started my podcast, I said, right. Okay. It's a weekly thing. And it's almost like, yeah, I'm on a ride now and I can't get off. I'm up to episode 70 as we're recording and I'm just like, Oh my God. You know, but it's kind of like the momentum's there.
Right. And once you've got the momentum, you just kind of ride the momentum, but yeah, for me to stop and then to restart, it would feel like much more effortful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You don't want to stop because you get that thing of like, if you stop running, you're going to trip over. Well, flat on your face.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh gosh. I actually love though, when people come to me after they've had a bit of a break for the, from their podcast or, you know, they fell out of love with it and they want to start it back up again. And I love when they come back and they're like, okay, I'm coming to you because I found it hard.
I need help. And. I'm like, all right, let's get back into it. But like, here's how it's going to go. So that we're not going to get back to that point. We don't want it to feel like you're burning out fit. Like we want it to feel easy. We're not brain surgeons. We're not trying to cure cancer. We're trying to make you make a podcast that's going to help your business move forward.
So I love when people come back and I'm like, all right. Forget any of those things that you, that made you stop, let's just keep going. No one's thinking about where have they been? They're probably just sad they miss you. Yeah. They're just busy doing other things and life moves on. It's fine. Amazing.
Thank you so much. Is there anything that you want to share before we get into our Smash or Pass? Or what do you mean share? Sorry. Just anything that you, anything that, um, you've got going on or, um, just like if you, if there's anything that you think of that would be helpful to the conversation. I can, I can ask the question again if you've got anything, but otherwise we can just move on.
Yeah. And I can't think of anything. Sorry. All right. We are ready for a little game of smash or pass. Smash Bing, two thumbs up, pass Bing, put it in the bin. Are you ready? I'm ready. Bring it on. All right. Sticky notes. I'll pass. Same! Yeah. Oh my god. So many people love them. It used to be a thing now. They drive me nuts.
They are also such a waste. I am an iPad girly now. I don't even use a notepad anymore. I use my, um, I bought like a template for good notes. And so I write my like list everyday on my iPad. So I never even use a notebook anymore. I do use a notepad. I got gifted a beautiful notepad. From someone I worked with last year.
And I'm using that to like my, right. My daily to do list. And I love that, but yeah, and I post it. No, it's not. They just get, they get everywhere. Um, they drive me crazy trash. Love it. Uh, loud chewers.
Seriously, serious pass hard shell tacos. Oh, that's a pass too. It's all about the squish. Yeah. Love it. And that actually made me like crave tacos as we just, as you just squished that. I'm hungry for dinner tonight. Uh, Taylor Swift. Oh, you know what? Pass. I'm like, I'm just not that. I'm, I'm, I'm so neutral.
I'm so neutral. I've got to watch the documentary. I feel like that might give me some insights, but yeah, I mean, it's okay. I won't turn her off if she comes on, but I'm just not, yeah, I'm not a Swifty. I used to never be a Swifty. I was when I was like 15 or like maybe like 13, 14 kind of thing. And then.
When, I don't know, I think there's so many people like talked so much crap about her in the media that I was like, Oh, offer. And then I started listening to like, and then I started learning more about her and I was like, okay, she actually is really cool. Now I'm a Swifty. So I was on the boat, then I was off and now I'm back on, so I'll watch the Jocko and I'll get back to you.
All right. And then the last one, smash or pass houseplants. Smash. Yes. And finally, like my husband and I killed so many houseplants in the past. And it's like the house that we're in now just seems to be like the house where plants stay alive. So yes, we've had some plants going for like four years and it's so lovely.
I just keep adding to the collection. So yeah, they bring me lots of joy. Oh, I love that. I love houseplants. I actually, I was a huge, huge fan. And then my partner is a bigger fan of plants and it kind of turned me off being a fan of plants. I know that sounds so ridiculous, but I was like, Oh, he likes them more.
And then I got lazy with it. So. I've got very low maintenance houseplants. Oh, me too. I think they're lucky if they get watered like once every three weeks or four weeks, but I think that's the secret. I think I was killing them by over watering. So much love. Now I just wait for them to droop and tell me.
Perfect. Amazing. Thank you so much. If someone needs help with their. If someone needs a copy coach to whip their copy into shape, boost their confidence and get accountability, they can come and find me. I'm all roads lead to emma mcmillan copy. com. That's where all my stuff is. I'm on Instagram and LinkedIn and listen to the podcast.
Not just about copy. Hell yeah. We'll put all those links in the show notes and for everyone else. We'll see you next week. Thanks Emma. Thanks Cass.
We want to say thanks so much for joining us for another good chat. We would love if you would help us with our 2023 goal to get to 100 ratings and reviews, and then send this podcast on to someone who you think will love it just as much. Connect with us on LinkedIn and Instagram like good chat media, and we'll chat with you next week. Bye. This podcast was produced by good chat media.
