Episode 04: Building Community Through Podcasting with Jordan Koster and Hayleigh Watson from Girls Gotta Work Podcast
Today I'm chatting with some of my favourite people in the world, my biz besties Hayleigh and Jordan from Girls Gotta Work. In the midst of celebrating the theme of International Womens Day of 'Embracing Equity', we accidentally slipped into the topic of politics, and how it felt as a female child growing up in the 90s with politics.
We dive into:
What we think of embracing equity
Having a podcast as a product, rather than a marketing tool in your business
The challenges of working together in business
Their secret to building a community
Securing a sponsor for their live event AND their podcast
About Girls Gotta Work
Hayleigh and Jords are the brains behind Girls Gotta Work, a podcast and community space designed for women to share the rad, the bad and the mad reality of running a business. Hayleigh also runs Hali Helper, a virtual assistant agency helping female-led businesses with admin, socials, graphic design and business strategy. And Jords runs Scrunch Social, helping rad small business owners with their social media strategies that are bloody effective but fun and easy to implement.
Connect with Jordan and Hayleigh on Instagram @girlsgottawork
Get your tickets to the GGW Presents: Real Talk For Women In Business
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Good Chat Media acknowledges the traditional owners of the land where we work, live and record the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin nation and we pay our respects to elder's past and present always was always will be Aboriginal land Hey, I'm Cass, the founder podcast production agency, good chat media and welcome to Good chats. Good chat is a podcast with a holistic approach to business and marketing. And with the help of some super special people, I'll be spilling all the secrets about boosting your brand building credibility and connecting with community through podcasting. Let's get into the episode.
Hello, it is Cass. Welcome back for another episode of The Good Chats Podcast. Today, I am joined by some gorgeous friends of mine, my biz besties Jordan and Hayleigh from Girls Gotta Work. Hayleigh and Jords are the brains behind Girls Gotta Work, a podcast and community space designed for women to share the RAD, the Bad and the Mad reality of running a business. Hayleigh also runs Hali Helper, a virtual assistant agency helping female led businesses with admin socials, graphic design and business strategy. And jords runs Scrunch Social, helping rad small business owners with their social media strategies that are bloody effective, but fun and easy to implement, which I know for a fact, both of these women are so freakin special. They actually both do work for me and I work for them. So it's a little incestual. But we love it. We're just business owners living our best lives because we have amazing support around us. S o today in the podcast, we are celebrating first off that it is International Women's Day. And then we're getting into podcasting now feels good to work is a little different to other podcasts. Whereas a lot of people use a podcast as a marketing tool. Girls Gotta Work, or using their podcast as their product from the podcast. They are running events. They're selling merch, and they actually have an upcoming panel event that they're going to tell us all about. So strap in is here they are. Hey, friends.
Thank you for having us. It's so nice to be on your podcast.
Yeah, we just did a swap where I was on their podcast. So it's fun to be around the other way.
I know. So good. I wonder if this will be as chaotic as on Girls Gotta Work
Likely that will be
Probably
Getting straight into it. Today is International Women's Day. And the theme for this year is embracing equity. And they've said "When we embrace equity, we embrace diversity. And we embrace inclusion. We embrace equity to forge harmony and unity and to help drive success for all. Through the process of equity, we can reach equality." And I'd love to know what your thoughts are that
I really love this year's theme because I think equity is something that is as they said, like way more achievable at the moment. I think for so long, we have been fighting to reach some form of quality, like you know, from the right to vote fighting for equal pay, which is still like so it feels so far away. So like, we have gotten better in the pay front, but still such a disparity. So I feel like I don't know, equality just feels unrealistic at the moment. And I really think equity is a really great place, I want to say to start but also potentially just as an end goal as well, like equity is basically the idea that you give everyone a level playing field regardless of where they've come from in life. So a good example is politics. And I know this is probably not a great time to bring politics into started. Anyone really gives a fuck about politics. But I think Have you guys heard of courses in politics?
Yes.
So for anyone who doesn't know corridors are basically the idea where a lot of parties have like a corridor for how many women they need to make up their sort of elected members. A lot of men, I'm gonna say mostly men, I think this is giving women like an unfair leg up in terms of politics, because it's like, you know, you need to that woman who's meeting that quota might be less qualified than a man running for the same seat or whatever. But I think it's a really good example of how equity makes it a level playing field because there is so much still going against women being elected to politics, like there's so much stigma around, you know, can potentially a man be actually a really successful elected member, like, can I actually do the job? Well, so a lot of men think that, you know, quarters are unfair, and like disadvantaging them. But I think it's a really good example of how equity works, and it makes it a lot easier for us to work towards equality, because the more we mandate women being elected into politics, the more we see that women can do the job, the more likely we are to vote for women without quotas, so that makes sense. I feel like I just went on a long ramble, but that's just why I love it. That's I love equity. Like it's such a good example of equity is sort of like the great starting point towards working towards equality.
Yeah, I think so as well. But it's also like it's only the men who have an issue. Which is the point
What about International Men's Day,
Like, actually have a day you just don't celebrate it because every day is your day.
Yeah. Because no one cares.
You're gonna have to fight to like, have rights. That's why.
I think that's a good point, too. Not only does it show, not all men, but men, that women can do the job, but also like little girls, and growing up people saying, look, there's a woman in power. There's like a woman CEO, there's just women doing the things I want to do. It allows me to now connect my dream to someone in something. And I think that's just powerful in itself.
So like when you know, we were growing up, and we were younger, I don't know about you guys. But I don't remember seeing really any woman in politics or anyone to sort of form up those spots. So when I was asked, like, what do you want to do when you're older? Yeah, politics never entered my mind, because it was all just men in that field. So yeah, I love that. Yeah. Not only is it great for, you know, women who are wanting to get into politics, but it's also great for Yeah, the new past us or the kids or who also Yeah, I don't know, it opens up that possibility. And I think it makes it easier for them to then reach equality, when they're grown ups as well. Yeah,
I think as well with like, when we were growing up, and we saw the men in power, it was like, I always just think of American politics, because it's much more televised and everything like yeah, for sure. And it's like, if you think of like Michelle Obama, She's famous for all the things she does, but it's because she was the president's wife. She was a first lady. Yeah. And she has made waves in her own right, absolutely. But would she have if she wasn't the president's wife? Yeah, potentially not. Never know. Yeah, love me some Michelle Obama.
I feel like she would have been having a platform that's allowed to do it faster and quicker.
If we had her as as a president, then maybe we would feel different about it from the get go and feel like that. Yeah, that can be a position that we can be. And that's not unrealistic.
Yeah, for sure. Whereas as you were saying, like, I think, if you know, she didn't hold that position, it would have taken longer, like, I think she still would have done amazing things, but potentially just not to the level. And she wouldn't have created that sort of idea or planted that idea in our heads that oh, wait. You know, women actually can do roles like this. And we can make a difference. And we can take the top job.
If you think about this sentence even just said, like, women actually can do X. Yeah, it's f**ked that we even think that way that that's even in our vocabulary, it's like you can do whatever you want. But why is that thing? Oh, you can grow up and be whatever you want to do to?
Oh, you can actually do this? Oh, yeah. Even though you're a woman you can? It's like, they don't tell little boys that. No. And I think that's another thing. Like, I mean, sort of to get even further off track. But like, the language around how we speak to young people in general, is so crazy in terms of we always sort of minimise young girls or not intentionally at all. But you know, when, like, oh, you know, you should strive to be president and, or like, CEO, or whatever, it's like, it can be a princess or you can be whatever, whereas the boys, it's totally different. Like, I think we definitely need to also address the language we use if we want to work towards, like, sort of go above equity and go towards equality. I think we need to start from like, how we speak to children as well.
I mean, it's good with us Millennials raising the babies now.
Sorry, Gen Z over here. But thank you
And Gen Zs having babies
I am still a baby.
You guys have a wonderful podcast that I get to listen to all the time. What made you decide to use the podcast as a product instead of a marketing tool within your own businesses?
Well, I think until we had our launch call, we never considered that a podcast could be a way to market our businesses. Like we sort of came up with the idea of a podcast as the product like I think a lot of the podcasts, Hayleigh and I listen to our the product and sort of when everything else the business is based around the podcast being the central products that they sell. And I think we sort of just thought like, Oh, that's cool, let's let's do that. And then we had your co occur with you and you're like, Yeah, you know, you can use this to like market your businesses. And you know, what, like, hard on the strategy, which was amazing. But yeah, I was like, Oh, wow. Like, it didn't even occur to me that it could be a marketing tool until we had that chat. So yeah, I think it was really just it didn't occur to us.
Yeah, I think having it as the product has definitely helped us in how we like structure our work. stuff because we're doing it together. And it's like a collaboration of two different brands we like it just made more sense to create it as its own brand and its own business, because then it's like an additional business rather than an add on to the businesses we already have. Because it just didn't make sense, as a collaboration to add it on to either of our businesses, our businesses, even though we're both service based businesses, they're different. And we run them very differently. So it's like, made sense to make it as the product and build the business around that.
Yeah. And I think as well, like what we wanted to do with Girls Gotta Work. And what we are doing is building a community of female business owners. As Hayleigh said, we both could have done that in our own businesses, we both work with female led businesses, but it'd just be different. I feel like almost if we had it as more of a marketing tool for our own businesses and sort of did like a tit for tat, like one week, Hayleigh would, you know, bring to the table, something about Halle helper and the next I would bring something to the table about scrunch it is sort of just be like an educational sort of thing, which is not something we ever set out to create, either. So I think just the intention of what Girls Gotta Work was always going to be come from the get go, just didn't really fit within that model, I guess.
Yeah.
And allows us to step away from our businesses and create something else. And like, I think we can do it all, as we talked about at the start of this episode, we can do it all. But like, does it mean like all your business ideas might not fit into the business you have right now? Yeah. And like all the things that were creating, and Girls Gotta Work or things we've always wanted to do. But like we hadn't really figured out how that fit into our personal businesses. So coming together to create a second business and create the podcast. First is how we're like getting to take off all the other fun things we've wanted to do, but didn't know how to do yet.
Yeah. I think though, it does, in my mind raise an important point of, even though the podcast isn't for your individual businesses, it's still building a personal brand for both of you, for you building a community that you can, you know, have events with and everything which we'll get on to. But it doesn't have to be all educational. Yeah. Like it can like and storytelling is something that's super important. So although Girls Gotta Work doesn't have to do with social media or virtual assistants at all. It still we know exactly what you do. Because it's storytelling, and you're able to tell stories through that, that people understand what you do and how you help people. So that if they were like, Oh, actually, I need to do that. Or like, I need that in my life. They know where to go.
Yeah. And it keeps us top of mind as well. Like if someone listens to the podcast on Wednesday, when it launches. You know, if Thursday, they're looking for a virtual assistant or a social media person, they're like, Oh, I just listened to Hayleigh rambled on for like, an actual, I should say, Jordan. Anyway, here. Sorry. Like, I just listen to them chat, you know, for 10 minutes about like, how they've been helping someone in business or like, because we always talk about our weeks in business. And yeah, it always keeps it top of mind, which I think Yeah, so like, indirectly markets, our business. But it's amazing. That's not the focus, though.
Yeah
And then working together on this one cause and it being a business with the events that you've got coming up, you've done merch, what have been the strengths and weaknesses that you've discovered from doing it? Do you take kind of each other's strengths and weaknesses within how you run business into account? Like how's it been just collaborating?
We are kind of the exception, not the rule. Yeah, I think Jordan and I are really lucky that where I fall, she can lift me up and vice versa, like what she's, she's good at, I'm not so good at and what I'm good at, she's not so good at so like, I think were a bit of an exception. Like we're very lucky that that is the case in how we communicate how we run our businesses, how we just do our day to day lives, they just complement one another. So I'm really lucky like that, like I'm quite planning focused, and like forward thinking, and John's not. But we need to make a blend. So it's like really good, because I would probably get too caught up in the plan and then not execute, whereas Jordan might execute and be like, Oh, why didn't I think about this? When I think about that. And I don't know, neither approach is bad. But it's good to have that together. And it allows us to collaborate really well because like, if I'm not feeling it today, Jordan will lift me up. And if I'm feeling I'll lift her up, and our values really aligned easily. So because our values aligned in like the podcast and what we wanted out of it as skill sets. It didn't matter as much as they could because like if we were both good at the same things, I don't think that would matter either because the values are the same.
Yeah. I agree. And I think one of the biggest values is communication as well. Like that's why we work so well together. Like I've had a pretty rough last couple of months just in agency land. And I think you and I were on a call last week, Ken, I was, you know, I'd sort of just been in such a, like, bad vibe. I was just so like, flat and out of it. I'd been like that for a couple of months. And we're on a call with Hayleigh. Oh, Jordan’s back, like, you know, it's just like back to normal. And it was so good. Because throughout that time, like, I was really open. I was like, I'm just really struggling. And yeah, Hayleigh, like, you know, picked up my slack. And, you know, I'd like to think that, you know, anytime Hayleigh if she ever stopped could pick up the slack.
That's so nice.
So yeah, I think that definitely our strengths.
I mean, you write most of the notes. You help and
I yeah, that like, No, I like, but that's more of a skill thing. Not like, I just fell off the face of the business Locklear too.
Yin to Yang, each other definitely.
That's what we like to think
The one thing that does like I think fell down, and I think it's important to talk about is just like, time and time. Like we said, the podcast or girl is gonna work is our second business. And it's sometimes really hard to make that a priority. Like we you really do you need to think, like, I think going into this year with all the changes, like my agency is growing, Jordan's going back to work full time, and then running two businesses on the side. Like, I don't fucking know how you're gonna make it work. We're growing this community. And it's growing fast. And we're excited. But yeah, let's do it yesterday.
One of the great things we've done to sort of count, I don't say counter that because I think times always, it's an ongoing battle. As far as like, we never have enough time in the day to do all the things that we want to do. But when we all went away for our treat, like we just set aside a couple of hours to map out six months worth of podcast topics like figuring out which guests we want to get on, like, reach out to guests like you to like, make sure that we've got that logged in, we sort of came up with like a new content plan and how we want to do that. We spoke about our event and like mapped out that and like did some big picture planning, I think, doing that maybe every six months is a really good way to just be like, Okay, this is like you've got to work time. Like it's not Hali time. It's not scrunch time. It's not just like us hanging out as mates time. It's like this is business development. Big picture, let's get shit done. Let's prepare as much as we can. So that when we are really time poor, we're prepared as much as possible. And it might mean that short, we don't get to spend 20 minutes at the start of how we're talking about. I don't know, whatever is going on in our personal lives, but it just sort of sets up authors. Yeah, exactly. But it just sets us up for the year. I think I feel so much more at ease. Like we're early in February. But I just feel so much more at ease knowing we've got topics set until June.
Yeah, honestly, like, planning ahead for anything makes life so much easier. And it's that whole thing of like structure creates freedom. Yes, you can't like podcasting is one of those things where it is like it is a time suck. It's, oh, it's so good. Like, there's so many benefits from it. But time is something that's really important. And it will help grow your bat brand and grow your business. And it will be beneficial when you do it. Right. But you got to plan you got to make sure that you're making it easy for yourself.
Yeah, for sure. And I think I like to think that's one thing we're prioritising in our second year of Girls Gotta Work. It's almost our birthday.
I know, I can't believe it's almost been a year. That's wild.
I know! We're gonna have to do something. Add that to our to do list this week, talking about having so much time up our sleeves, and we need to plan a birthday party. That's something we're working on yeah.
Yeah, and I know, you're talking about the community that you've got growing. What do you think is some important factors of building community?
This is gonna sound super simple, but actually like giving a shit about them. I feel like so many people want to build communities, like they'll see a gap in the market, right? So they'll say, you know, for us our gap was we hadn't seen many, many women, led community spaces that were focused on actually sharing the real reality of running a business. Like, I think when Hailey and us sort of came up with this idea we were talking about just, there's, it's a roller coaster, and like, there's so many ups and downs. And we were like, Okay, well, we're filling this gap, like our gap is to be sort of the space where we can have real conversations and honest conversations that judgement. And I think most people go into community creation with that as the focus and I think that's great. But they don't really care about the members who are sort of, I don't know doing their time and their energy, there's no nurturing. And yes, like we spend heaps of time chatting to our community, we respond to every DM and every comment and every email and yeah, I think we did really involved with our community. I think there's always things we can do better. And there's always ways we can care about them more and show our love for the more but yeah, I think that is definitely. Yeah, it's definitely how we've grown our community so quickly, I think, what do you reckon, Hayleigh? Yeah, agree, disagree.
I literally, I was like, filling a gap that everyone needs. Yeah, it's 100% that I just remember starting my business and like, I'm pretty sure you guys have been, but like, none of us went to school for business. But even if you did you learn structure and you learn how to pay your taxes, or what that kind of stuff, you don't learn how to look after yourself, like your emotions as a business owner, and we needed to create a space where we talk about that. Yeah. And once you start talking about something, you then allow other people to feel less alone. And as I'm getting older and my own, and then I'm old. But as I'm getting older, like I just realised how important that is, is to hear someone who I might idolise or look up to have an experience that I'm having as well and go, Fuck I'm I'm not the only one. And that's the I think, at the core of it is how we've been able to create our community.
Yeah, so that's sort of why we're hosting our event in March. So we're hosting, we have three amazing business women coming to join our panel discussion, talking about really what our podcast is all about the bad, the bad, and the Mad reality of running a business. I know that when we were at our retreat earlier this year, there were so many moments where, you know, we all idolise each other, and I think that's so amazing, but there were so many moments where, you know, whether it was like you, Cass, or Hailey or Remi, who also came with us, that, you know, you'd say something, and it'd be something about how you were doubting yourself or, you know, this is sort of what you've been thinking or like, Fuck, I'm just gonna give up and go get a job or whatever it was. And you're like, wow, like, you're like, You're my idol. Like, you're so successful in my eyes. Like, you're so amazing. Like, what do you mean, you have dads, what do you mean? Like, the same things I do? And yeah, exactly, like, shook. And I feel like, having these conversations online is great. And having them on the podcast is great. But I have never felt so fucking validated as when we had those conversations in person at the retreat, because I was like, it was just about actually seeing almost the, like, emotions on whoever was talking space. Like, it's all good. And well, for someone to comment on Instagram posts being like, Oh, my God, I feel this, like, I've also been through imposter syndrome or whatever. But when you're having that conversation in person, it's like, you really get it like at a soul level, like it really sinks in. So I think having those conversations, it's just, like, I'm so excited for our event, because not only as speakers gonna sort of be talking about their real experiences. These are amazing business women, like I'm so excited to see what they have to say. We're also gonna have so much fun to connect with just fellow business owners, like everyone who attends is assuming it's gonna be a business owner, I don't know if any randoms would come in. And just like, connect with everyone about what businesses like, I think it's so exciting. And, um, yeah, I'm so excited to bring this online community we've created like, into a physical space where you can like feel the energy, and really connect on like, a deeper level.
Yeah, it's so different in real life when you can connect with people because it's just and give permission. Yes. Oh, my God, permission is one of those things, I struggled. I struggled less now. But even yesterday, when I was saying to Hailey, I was on the phone, and I was saying, there's this thing that I was supposed to be going to it's on my list, I should probably go. And it was in a different community and I and she said, I'm not gonna go, busy. And I know you're really busy. So this is your permission slip to not go if you don't want to, and I was like, delete out of my calendar. Just like being around people that actually understand you, I feel like I didn't realise how lonely that I was in business, when I first started maybe the first year and a half, year and a half, maybe first year. And, you know, having to put yourself out there to go to networking events, it's so hard to go to networking events by yourself, you don't know anyone. And even if you know them, someone from online, I'm sure they'll be great in person. But it's also like, you don't know what they're going to be like, you might think, oh my god, they're going to be great or like that, I'm going to connect with them. And then they may not just not be your person, and that's okay, they're not but you don't know until you meet them in real life.
And so that makes it so much harder. Because you can never know what I think one thing that we would all love as online business owners is to know that our online communities or people we meet online are going to be exactly what we expect them to be when we meet them in person and it's just never gonna happen like that. Like, sometimes there's so much better and like you connect so much, you know, on such a deeper level, like you have so much more fun than you thought you potentially would. Sometimes it's the opposite and it just doesn't go very well and you leave feeling flat and disappointed and like, oh, fuck all right now after the drawing board, I need your business friends like
It's like business dating. It's like you see them on Tinder and think, Oh, thank you. They you know, they look around and then you get there and you're like, they were either so boring, or they were so horrible. And I actually was like, hell no, please call me Get me out of here. Yeah. Or they could be like, you get home you like, I'm actually in love, like how do I see you again?
Put a ring on it and call it a day?
And I know that for the event, and for the podcast, you guys have got a sponsor! How was the process in getting the sponsor?
We are actually super lucky because our sponsor for the podcast. And the event is the little gift love, which is one of my ex clients, or one of my clients. And we just have a really good relationship. And we chat all the time. And I was just telling her about the podcast and the event. And she was like, I want in, I want to end and I was like, Okay, please come in. So that's been like really lucky, but, and we're super excited and thankful because like her values align with ours. And it just makes sense to us. But I think prior to that, I was stressed like it's it's nerve racking, like thinking about getting sponsors and thinking about how that's going to all work and like, do you have enough numbers? Like what are the there's not a lot of information for smaller podcasts, to know how to how to charge how to how to figure all that out. So I think it's nice now that we've got one, it's like, I'm ready. Like, I'm like that impostor syndrome is like gone now. It's like, well, fuck it. We've got one like, Why? Why won't someone else say yes, like, you just never know. So?
And I think the amazing thing is like, they pitch to us, like talking about syndrome like, and like, I feel like when it comes to sponsors, where I was, like, can we need to like find sponsors and like to research and like pitch ourselves to them, I think was just like, so good for the imposter syndrome was just, like, melt away that and came to us and was like, Oh, my God, I love it. I love it. I love it. Let me help you. Like, I think that was just so nice.
And will Ange be at the event?
Yeah, she'll be there. We've got some really good little goodie bags from her. So you definitely want to come and meet and she is the most beautiful soul I've ever met. Like, I just remember, like, the first time I chatted to her, I was like, did we become like friends. It was so weird. Like I just felt instantly comfortable. So she's just got this like presence about her and care so much about what she does as a gift boxing business to like have that involved in like something we feel so strongly about is just like phenomenal.
And she's just got an electric energy as well. Like I met him for the first time and we're having a chat about the sponsorship and like because she's providing like little goodie bags, and she's also providing our speaker gifts which are beautiful. And so we were literally jumped on a zoom for the first time first time I'd met her like I've been following the little gift off before but I literally jumped on and edge and Hayleigh sort of just got chatting, you know, because they are friends and you know, like they have have a lot to chat about. And then yeah, it sort of got hidden. I think I'm not sure if it was Hayleigh or Angela. Ah Darn it oh, I sorry. I just I feel like we've known each other forever. It was so easy to she was just so like welcoming and warm and like makes you feel like you're the only person in the room which I think makes her so good at what she does. So yeah, it flows through Yeah, it definitely flows through so love everything about and and yeah, I'm so excited to meet her in real life as well.
And tell everyone where is the event? When is it? How do they get tickets?
March 30. From 6:30 in Abbotsford, it's called Four Larks. And you can get tickets through Eventbrite.
Amazing!
